Cerise Magazine

Jess Hartley contacted us shortly after the first issue of Cerise went live, wondering if we’d be interested in doing an interview with her. After I’d had the opportunity to check out her website and some of her writing, the answer was a resounding yes. Jess writes and edits as a freelancer in the tabletop gaming industry (frequently working with White Wolf), blogs regularly, and is an active convention-goer. I hope you all will enjoy reading this interview as much as I enjoyed conducting it.

Robyn Fleming: I’m going to start with the obvious question: How did you get into writing role-playing game supplements?

Jess Hartley: By accident, really. I’m very interested in writing novel length fiction, and approached White Wolf several years ago about joining their pool of fiction writers. This eventually led to me being hired to write In Northern Twilight, a novel set in the Exalted game world, and afterwards I was contracted to write a book for their new Werewolf: The Forsaken line as well. Being as though I was working on writing the novel as the core gamebook was actually being written, I became very familiar with the material, and when Ethan Skemp (the developer for W:TF) found himself in a jam and needed someone to help flesh out the spirits for the game supplement “Predators”, he asked if I would be willing to give it a shot. Always eager for a new challenge, I said “sure”, and from there the projects just kind of kept trickling in.

RF: I know that you write novels as well as RPG material. Do you find that the process is similar? What are the big differences in writing style?

JH: There’s more “wiggle” room in novels, I think, in that people tend to realize that what’s important is telling a good story that’s true to the mood and feel of the world, not whether three punches could actually deliver enough damage to knock out a werewolf or whether that particular Discipline works exactly in that manner in those circumstances. You don’t want to directly contradict the game rules, but, hey, everyone rolls a Dramatic Failure once in a while, and you’re a bit more free to “tinker” with things in writing novels because people are reading them for entertainment and to get a feel for the world.

In writing the core game material and supplements, folks are reading the books to understand the mechanics of how the game itself works. You have to make sure all of your details are spot on and that even in the fiction that’s included in the RPG material you’ve been meticulous about presenting things that complement and support the rules, rather than deviate in any way. It’s much more likely to be picked apart by readers with a fine toothed comb and so you really have to make certain you’re taking every obscure rule variation into consideration when you’re either creating new rules or fleshing out ones which already exist.

On the other hand, novel writing has its own unique challenges. People read stories to be entertained, and it’s really hard to keep people’s attention and interest for tens of thousands of words in a row on a single story. Each time I finish a novel, it’s like having run a marathon with my mind. It’s a lot of work to write a 100K story, and to write that much and be able to have it be interesting, informative and coherent is just a really difficult thing.

Another difference is that most times, when you’re writing RPG material (at least for White Wolf) you’re working on a team, breaking a book up into 15-30K chunks that you’re collaborating with others on. Writing a novel, it’s really “your baby”, which is both better and worse, depending on the particular day.

RF: You do a lot of writing within pre-existing universes. What sorts of challenges does that pose for you as a writer? How do you work in your own unique touches and ideas?

JH: When writing original fiction (like the novel, La Serenissima, that I’m currently shopping around), you’ve got much more freedom to mold the world to your needs as a creator. If you decide that you want vampires to be created by tainted burial rites or werewolves to be cursed by God for their sins, you can do that. However, the other side of that is that you have to create everything from scratch and you are the one making sure that it all makes sense and works together in a coherent fashion.

In a pre-existing universe, much of the framework has already been built for you. Magic works like this. This part of the world is like this. In some cases (like In Northern Twilight, where some of the characters were signature characters that had already been built and written about) you even know that these people are like this, and that most of the contradictions and pitfalls have been caught by someone else (although occasionally you find something like Arianna’s eyes being described as different colors and have to either ignore it or build in a reason why it’s that way when it was obviously just a mistake founded in having several different writers working on the material).

I love the challenge of taking things that already exist and weaving in my own stuff, but at the same time you have to remember not to deviate too much from what has already been established. One of the things I try to remember when writing in an existing world is that it’s not my world. It’s not even White Wolf’s world. That world belongs to each and every one of the gamers and readers who has invested hours of time playing and reading it, and it’s a big responsibility to make sure that you serve them well.

RF: I’m curious about what role – if any – inclusiveness plays in your writing. Do you try to put a particular emphasis on writing that’s woman-positive or otherwise deliberately inclusive (through use of feminine pronouns, etc.) when you’re working on a game? Do you think inclusive writing in RPGs is important?

JH: White Wolf is actually great about this. While, as writers, we’re given a great deal of leeway on things like “which pronoun do I use in examples”, I’ve noticed that it’s usually very inclusive of women as players, Storytellers and characters. Even the art, which can be a big issue with some publications, is using more and more examples of female characters who are not at one end of the extreme or another (hags or vixens).

As for me, I try to mix it up fairly evenly, but am consciously aware of the opportunity to open the gender stereotypes when writing examples. I don’t want to have anyone (male or female) feel that they can’t or shouldn’t be a Storyteller or play any particular character type by virtue of their sex because I’ve inadvertently used all male or female pronouns in examples.

RF: I know from reading your blog that you attend quite a few gaming conventions. What are some of the things you enjoy most about going to cons?

JH: PEOPLE! One of the best things about being a writer for a living is that it lets me be fairly flexible in my hours and work from home, which lets me be with my family when they need me. However, the other side of that coin is that I don’t get to get out to the office every day and hang out with co-workers. I don’t go out on my lunch hour or coffee break, I don’t run errands on the way to and from work, I don’t even have the dubious pleasure of being stuck in traffic along side other folks on the commute.

There are days, sometimes weeks a time where the only face-to-face contact I have with people outside of my family is if I run to the market for groceries. It can be very lonely, and for an extravert like myself, I find that I need a certain amount of people-contact to keep my energy up and recharge my batteries. Cons do that for me. I get to meet new people, hear about their lives (and talk about mine), engage in conversations about everything from gaming to philosophy and (if I’m lucky) make new friends and see new things. It’s kind of a “feast or famine” for human contact for me, so I really enjoy the feast times when they come around.

RF: I noticed that you’ve been on a couple of “women in gaming”/”women in the industry”-type panels at cons within the past year or so. You must have given the topic some thought! What are some of your thoughts on the status of women in tabletop gaming, both as players and as creators?

JH: This is a really hard question to answer, because there’s a lot of paradox between the reality and the ideal of the situation. Ideally, I don’t think we should oversimplify the issue of “gaming” down to “all women gamers are similar and thus should be treated similarly in terms of tastes or attitudes”. I prefer to think of gamers in terms of what they like and don’t like in games, rather than their sex (or age, or other classifications that don’t really say a lot about them as gamers). Not all women like the same sorts of games, or feel the same sorts of issues about gaming, so it’s an oversimplification to refer to a group as “women gamers” and try to extrapolate any particular statement about them. Just like all other gamers, women vary drastically in what they want from games, what they enjoy, what they play, and why they play it. So part of me wants to say “by having panels on ‘women in gaming,’ we’re really reinforcing a false perception that there is a commonality of experience or viewpoint for all females who game,” and it would better serve the community to look at its members’ needs and desires in terms of what they want from gaming, be it social gaming, combat gaming, theater gaming, or whatever, regardless of the sex of the player.

However, the reality is a bit less egalitarian. There are social aspects to gaming which come into play very strongly based on sex, because of the social dimorphism of our culture. Men and women, boys and girls, ladies and gentlemen are not treated equally, are not thought of equally, are not equal in our society, and chances are they never will be. So it’s unrealistic to expect that those differences will not bleed over into every aspect of our culture, including gaming. And they do. So there is definitely a merit to discussing topics about the reality of being a woman in this culture, as a player or a professional, while at the same time trying to avoid the pitfalls of assuming that any one woman’s experiences, thoughts or feelings are the same as any other’s.

RF: Do you think tabletop game designers generally do a good job of making their products appealing to women players? What more, if anything, could RPG creators be doing to attract and retain female gamers? Is there anything that you think creators should be avoiding?

JH: Like I mentioned above, I don’t think any one thing appeals to all women, any more than any one thing appeals to all men. I think the industry is better served by trying to appeal to the types of gamers they’re trying to attract and which have been under-catered to in the past, rather than some mythical all-inclusive sex-segregated focus group. Social gamers (who thrive on heavy inter-character interaction and non-combat related games) and Theater gamers (who like a lot of customization [makeup/costume] and drama in their games) are both general trends that are sometimes labeled as being for women gamers, but I know a lot of men who like those game styles and a lot of women who prefer beat-em-up-and-take-their-stuff or strategy/tactic games.

RF: How do these ideas influence your own work?

JH:Honestly, I write what I love, and I try not to be a dork about alienating anyone, regardless of their sex, race, religious views, political stance, etc. I tend to rebel against terms like “gamer girl” (which has both sex and age connotations that go far beyond what you might think at first glance) or “women gamer” being used as external labels. If you want to call yourself a gamer girl or a woman gamer or a female gamer, that’s great. But those who are trying to label others by using those terms usually have some pre-conceived notions about what those terms mean that may or may not apply to the individuals they are labeling. I’d prefer to be allowed to define my labels myself and to allow others to do so.

RF: I’m guessing that you’re probably not supposed to talk much about your latest projects, but is there anything you’re particularly excited about that you can share with our readers?

JH: I just finished up work on my part of the third book in the Scion series, which was a lot of fun. Very over-the-top mythic themes, it was just a blast to work on. I’m very excited that Changeling: The Lost seems to be getting so much positive press. It’s the first game corebook I’ve helped contribute to, and I’m really pleased with how it turned out and that people are so excited to play it. I also just finished the final edits on World of Darkness: Reliquary, the first game book that I’ve developed for White Wolf (developing involves hiring and supervising the writing team, and a lot of the “behind the scenes” work in guiding the book’s path). It is due out this fall, and I’m very excited to see the final product.

RF: As an experienced writer in the gaming industry, do you have any advice to share with other women who are interested in the field?

JH: Don’t be intimidated by the fact that it’s a male-heavy field, first and foremost. Go to conventions where the folks who are working in the field are going to be, and talk with them. Go to panels, spend time at the booths, discuss your thoughts on the game and establish a presence for yourself (in a positive and professional manner). Do some research and find out what the various companies are looking for (most have websites that detail submission guidelines) and then apply! 90% of the folks I’ve talked to who would like to work in the industry haven’t gotten to that first step, and without applying, you will never break into the industry. After that first step, be politely persistent and hone your skills, every chance you get. And, once you’ve been given a chance, be professional. Meet your deadlines, communicate if there are any problems, and do what you’ve been hired to do. Those basic things will take you a long ways in the industry, because despite the fact that it’s about games, the creation part is work and like any other job, it needs to be handled professionally.

Jess Hartley invites our readers to write to her at jess@jesshartley.com or visit her website, www.jesshartley.com, if they’d like to learn more about her work or ask her any further questions. Be sure to keep an eye out for her upcoming publications!